Larissa Padden 00:06
Hello and welcome to Cogcast, Cognito’s podcast, where we talk to journalists and media pros on everything that’s happening in the world of media and PR. I’m Larissa Padden, your host and a former journalist turned PR professional.

For today’s episode, we’re joined by Masha Angelova, an editorial producer at the US Chamber of Commerce and mastermind of their show, The Call. Prior to joining the Chamber of Commerce, Masha was a booking producer at Yahoo Finance and producer at CNN. In other words, she was a big decider on who goes on air. Masha is extremely generous in this episode with what gets you in front of the camera and what gets you invited back. This was such a fun one to record, so I really hope you enjoy this episode.

Hi, Masha. Thanks for joining us today.

Masha Angelova 00:49
Thank you for having me.

Larissa Padden 00:51
I wanted to start, as I always start, with asking a little bit about your background with the media, but then also what you’re focused on now, because you kind of changed gears a little bit.

Masha Angelova 01:01
A little bit, yes. So I started off at CNN in the TV/digital side in 2018, and I was just telling your colleague now that it was during the World Cup in Russia. So I was an intern at CNN, and my internship was coming to an end, and I’m originally Russian, and it was the World Cup that year.

So as my last hurrah, I sent an email to the bureau chief in Moscow, because I still had the CNN email. And I was like, “Hey, I’m going to be in Russia.” He’s going to find out now the full truth. I wasn’t going to be in Russia. I know Moscow really well. I haven’t lived in Moscow since I was 10. “Do you need any help? I really want to help out. Do you need an extra set of hands?”

He comes back right away, and I’m like, “Oh, by the way, I’m going to have my email disconnected. Here’s on CC, my personal email. So if you need a spare, another set of hands, I’m around.” He comes back a day later, we hop on a phone, and then the next thing I know, I’m on a plane to Moscow.

Larissa Padden 01:57
Wow.

Masha Angelova 01:58
And that’s kind of how my career at CNN got started. From there, I was recommended back to New York, and we launched the flagship business show for CNN Business called First Move with Julia Chatterley, which was down at the New York Stock Exchange. Did that for a while, and that was super exciting, and kind of that’s my start into booking. So I was booking and producing down at the Stock Exchange.

From there, I took a bit of a gap, and then the war started, and I transitioned to News Desk, so fact-checking, verifying, geolocating, a little bit different skill set. From there, back into booking to Bloomberg, and now we’re shifting gears completely, where I’m producing once a week live video series. It’s for the US Chamber of Commerce’s Global Intelligence Desk, and it’s a much more in-depth episode, very specific, and very member-focused, because obviously the Chamber is one of the largest lobby groups, a very influential, very powerful DC organization.

So it’s similar skill set in that I’m booking, but different in that I have a very specific audience. I have very specific questions that we’re asking, and it’s much more in-depth than you would do with like a typical news broadcast. So that’s the shift in gears.

Larissa Padden 03:16
Well, first of all, good for you for the World Cup. I mean, that’s what they tell you to do in journalism school, is hustle. Did you have to fly yourself, though, in the end?

Masha Angelova 03:24
I did, yeah.

Larissa Padden 03:25
But worth it. Good experience.

Masha Angelova 03:27
It’s so worth it. And now I literally have those moments you have in your head, they’re just so cringe and they live rent-free in your mind. I did so many mistakes, like, oh, my gosh. And some very kind cameraman at some point—because we had this group chat going, and any time that there was a big win, and you’re obviously in the city, and everyone’s there for the World Cup, and they’re super excited, I’d always want to like hang out with the team and get to know them better, and I’d be like, “Yeah, let’s go for drinks, they won.”

But in news, if a team won, you’re working, you’re go, go, go. You’re catering, they’re like, “Yeah, let’s go for drinks. Who wants to come for drinks?” And then some cameraman took me aside, and he’s like, “Mash, that’s not what we do. What we do is the news. No one wants to go for drinks with you when something is breaking.” And he took me under his wing, and taught me how to set up the lights, what’s a good story.

Jackson, if you ever listened to this, shout out to you, because he helped me so much during that summer. And it was like a very baptism by fire, as they say, because he threw me in, and I was doing digital stories, I was doing TV stories, I was producing field, I was writing, it was just like everything all at once. But it’s such a good way to learn very fast by doing.

Larissa Padden 04:40
Yeah, I think sometimes that’s when you learn the most, is by just jumping in and kind of going in blind and learning the hard way.

Masha Angelova 04:46
Yeah. And I always say, and I used to say to my production assistant as well, FIO (figure it out). So jump in and figure it out—

Larissa Padden 04:54
Oh, I’ll remember that one.

Masha Angelova 04:55
—as you go.

Larissa Padden 04:56
Off mic, when we have more time, I’ll tell you about when I was interning, basically just carrying a broadcast camera for the London Olympics, and the mistakes that I made, basically never being where I was supposed to be, because I was too interested in what was going on. And they’re waiting for the camera and I’m off having a conversation with someone.

Masha Angelova 05:13
So excited.

Larissa Padden 05:13
So I think when we’re young and starting out, yeah, you get it, you get blinded by the excitement.

Masha Angelova 05:17
Yeah. Like, oh, my God, I’m surrounded by these cool people, and everyone’s so knowledgeable, and everyone’s so smart. And you’re like, “Oh, the lights.”

Larissa Padden 05:24
Yeah, exactly. Well, I’m really interested in your background as a booker. Obviously, we have a lot of clients that want to be on broadcasts, and broadcast has gotten so consolidated. There’s a lot of competition. So in your experience, how many people did you get—candidly, when I was emailing you about the podcast, I went back, and I had been emailing you a couple years ago when you were at Yahoo.

Masha Angelova 05:47
No way. Oh, my god.

Larissa Padden 05:48
Yeah, for one of my clients. So I’m sure you get so many people.

Masha Angelova 05:53
Was I at CNN or at Yahoo?

Larissa Padden 05:54
You were at Yahoo.

Masha Angelova 05:54
Oh, interesting. Okay, cool.

Larissa Padden 05:56
So one, kind of what that experience is like, being the one that receives all those people when it’s such a competitive, even more so than print. And then also, what caught your attention, and what got people on air?

Masha Angelova 06:08
So as prep for this, I actually went through, but I was trying to find it earlier, and I couldn’t find it. I wanted to read out loud the worst pitch I ever got, because I have it saved. I’m very sentimental. So I have my first pitch, this very sentimental letter that I once got from a PR as a response to me replying to her pitch, and then this is the worst pitch ever.

So the things that caught my attention that were good pitches are very show specific. I agree that it’s very consolidated, but the pitches that win are the ones that understand what the show is about. You have to do a lot more legwork now to understand the specific shows, the specific network, the specific anchor.

What do they like? What kind of people do they speak to? What types of guests do they go for? Do they want someone who is very outspoken and has a very strong opinion, or do they want someone who’s like an all-rounder, and they can throw a bunch of stuff at them, and they can talk cross-asset, they can talk news, they can talk anything, basically. Pitches that caught my attention that were the best and standout were the ones that were show specific.

And I was telling you earlier as well that I would actually—I’m in the very few, I think, the more that I speak to my colleagues, I think I’m definitely in the minority, especially at CNN when I was starting out, I would go through and answer every pitch that I got from anyone.

Larissa Padden 07:34
I know, you told me that earlier, and that’s crazy. That’s crazy.

Masha Angelova 07:37
And it took an hour set aside every day to just go through and respond, to have that personal element that you are speaking to a person. But it would drive me nuts when I would get the same pitch over and over again, the show name was a mistake, the anchor name was a mistake, my name was a mistake sometimes, because my last name is Angelova, so they put Angela, and I’m like, “No, it’s Masha.” And the ones that just felt like you’re part of those spammy emails that is just a classic copy paste.

So being show specific, being topic specific, I loved working with one of your colleagues during my time at Yahoo, because anytime there was some breaking news, she’d ping me and be like, “Oh, I actually have this guy who can speak on this specific thing.” So I was like, “Yeah.” I’m rushing. If there’s breaking news, I’m rushing to get any name on as soon as possible. And I get an email being like this guy, and this is what he said before, like a quote. I’m like, “Yeah, hell yeah, I want him on right now. Let’s get him on. Can we get him on in an hour? Yeah, awesome. Let’s get him on.” So it’s like news specific and show specific, I would say, are the two distinguishments.

Larissa Padden 08:51
Interesting. And so when you’re booking the guests, you kind of have a really heavy hand in setting a news agenda. Do you feel or felt the weight of that responsibility in some way, more so than maybe in other roles in media?

Masha Angelova 09:05
Yes and no. Because yes, in the sense of you’re trying to find the best voice. So you’re setting the agenda of, what is the best voice on that specific topic? And what can they bring? A lot of the times you’re going so fast that you’re just getting a voice versus the best voice. And it was really at Bloomberg where we were having a lot of conversations around why are we having this specific person to talk this specific thing. So in that sense, we were setting the agenda of thinking about who is the right voice to speak on whatever thing is happening.

But no, because you do work in a team, right? You’re always discussing things, the executive producer at the end of the day, sometimes I really want a guest on, and I think he’s great, but the executive producer or the anchor have a very strong opinion about where they want to take the show today. And you get overruled. And sometimes it is kind of out of our hands, despite how much we want to get someone on.

Larissa Padden 10:03
Interesting. So you gave us a little bit of an idea of how you pivoted and that you’re at the Chamber of Commerce now. But I wanted to talk about why you decided to make that change. And then if you can give us a little more detail about what you’re trying to build there.

Masha Angelova 10:16
Yes. So super short answer, I lost faith in the product that I was making.

Larissa Padden 10:23
Interesting.

Masha Angelova 10:23
And the long answer is, I think the news industry wider, specifically TV, is going through a reckoning. And it’s a very different environment right now with social media, with how quickly things spread. And the pattern that I was seeing is that people don’t really care as much about facts as they did before. And they just wanted to be part of the conversation, and they wanted more analysis.

And I also was at a point where I was like, I want to slow down, and I want to start thinking about who am I having on and why a lot more than you would do in a typical daily news show. I wanted to unpack topics. I wanted to read the back pages of Google about a guest that I was booking. I wanted to go a lot more in depth. And in the age of AI and ChatGPT, you can get information very easily and very quickly. So it then becomes more about asking the right question.

And at the Global Intelligence Desk, that’s exactly what we do. Our slogan is we ask the right questions to navigate uncertain times. Shameless plug. And that’s a lot more important, I think, nowadays than just getting whatever. Because everyone was going to Twitter. They’re reading directly from the source. But I always see that there’s a big craving for analysis and having an opinion of someone who is very intelligent, who has that experience to show for it.

And that’s what we’re doing now is that it’s fewer shows. It’s a lot more in depth. It’s someone who’s super intelligent and has had a full career to show for it with a very unique opinion. And we’re asking them a very specific question that is relevant to our audience or our members at the Chamber of Commerce and you see that value add.

I wanted to shape a product. Towards the end of my time in TV news, I felt a lot like I was just a clog in the machine, that I was just copy paste the same guest, you see the topic, and it was just so automatic. And I wasn’t learning. And I’m like, what am I doing?

And here, we’re taking the time, we’re very specific with who we book. We’re very specific with the topics and the questions that we’re asking. And hopefully, the guests have a better experience as a result as well because we’ve taken the time to actually get to know them. And we’re inviting them because we want that specific person versus just a voice to talk X, Y, or Z.

Larissa Padden 12:53
Yeah. I get that question a lot about leaving journalism. And I have my reasons, and you and I have spoken before, you want to grow, and you want to try something new. And the one thing I think that you don’t realize until you’re in it is that it is a thankless job because every day starts over again. So what you did the day before doesn’t really matter.

Masha Angelova 13:18
Exactly.

Larissa Padden 13:18
And I think you’re right. You’re so focused. I know when I was taught how to write breaking news, it’s who, what, when. And you don’t get time for the why because you got to move on to the next story and just the facts. And so I could see slowing down and having these interesting conversations. Maybe it’s not breaking news, but it doesn’t mean it’s not an important or interesting story.

Masha Angelova 13:39
And sometimes the context is much more important than what has just happened.

Larissa Padden 13:44
Yeah. So you’re doing a weekly series called The Call. Can you tell us a little more about what that is, what guests you’ve had on, and kind of how you go about getting guests for that show versus booking for news?

Masha Angelova 13:56
Yeah. So similar set of skills, a little bit different employment of them. It’s once a week, 20-minute show. The live version is only available for our members, and then the replay we post online. The plus side of the live element is that our members get to ask these guests questions. So there’s a lot of interaction in real time from members with these guests, and that’s kind of the unique selling point.

Where else would you get to interact directly with Richard Haas or Larry Summers and ask them a question, especially at a time when everything’s so uncertain and you want to get any information that will give you an edge over your competitors, any inside knowledge. That’s kind of how you win. So once a week, 20-minute live section with a Q&A, then we repost it.

And the types of people that we go for are thought leaders with, as I mentioned, a significant career to show for it, that they’ve been established, and they have an interesting perspective. I will say, compared to my previous roles, I get a few pitchers here or there, but not as often. So it’s a lot more proactive of me going after the bigger newsmakers and selling them on why they should join and have this 20-minute, because it’s a bit longer than this normal TV slot. So it’s them sacrificing their time as well, why they should join, they should have that longer discussion.

People do want to have the longer discussions, I will say. And it’s not two hours long and you’re sitting and doing a full podcast or anything like that. And I think that 20-minute mark, as we were discussing earlier, is actually that sweet point because the goal for us a lot of the time is to save our members’ time because we value their time, and they get that morning shot of espresso news with an analysis element of it. So 20 minutes, very concise. We try to really keep it moving fast, fast, fast to save time and getting those juiciest bits out of our guests within that allotted time.

Larissa Padden 16:01
Interesting. So now, when you proactively go out and look for storylines and guests, how do you go about that process? Is it informed by the news cycle or are you hearing from your members, “We want to hear more about X, Y, Z?”

Masha Angelova 16:16
We are, in some way, linked to news, because at the end of the day, we want to provide valuable business insights and our members are all C-suite, senior VPs, Fortune 500, Fortune 1000 companies who join in these calls. So we want to provide value there. And it is news adjacent, but it’s the evergreen version of it, if that makes any sense.

So to unpack that, it’s linked to whatever the main news headline of that week is, but with an analysis side. So say for tariffs at the beginning of April when they were announced, we were looking at specifically China and the tariffs that were going to be imposed on any ships that had either Chinese parts or Chinese made. And one of the guests that we had on was Lars Jensen, and he was very specific towards the maritime industry. He’s the CEO of Vespucci Maritime.

So it was tied to the news cycle as in that was the week of tariffs, so our members want to know a bit more about it. But it wasn’t in the sense like this is the headline and we’re just talking about it. So it’s from his analysis, what he’s seeing on the ground, what are his insights, what are his statistics? And we were talking about statistics earlier as well. It’s really important for us to have quantifiable data that we can show and illustrate these slightly more complicated concepts to members, again, to add value.

Larissa Padden 17:46
So to go back a little bit about when you worked in broadcast, because I do want to ask this question, because I think it’s going to make your no-inbox policy even more impressive. I always ask people to quantify on a weekly basis how many pitches they got. And I imagine throughout your career, if you saw that change in any way as broadcast changed, meaning did you get more because the competition got even more heightened as there are less places for people to be on TV and broadcast?

Masha Angelova 18:16
For sure. So CNN, I was getting a few here or there. And a lot of the time they were very, very off base. It would be just like we were a business show, and we’d get a pitch for a drinks company that is launching a new beverage type. And I was like, why? Why would you pitch this to us? As in, what is the business angle? Why would we talk about for five minutes this new beverage type? And Bloomberg was somewhat similar. At Yahoo, I had probably the most. I have a very strict zero policy, zero-inbox policy.

Larissa Padden 18:59
What does that mean?

Masha Angelova 18:59
I always leave the day with nothing in my inbox. Everything is archived. I have very strict folders and everything’s very organized. Now, bear in mind, this only works if you just joined a new company and you set this up from the get-go, because once you’re in it, there’s no way of setting this up and it just becomes a whole mess. But I would go through every single pitch, always respond, always give feedback.

And what I used to always say to PRs, “I’m more than happy to hop on a call. And this is a partnership. We want to have a good show. You want to have your guest on. You want your guest to do best.” No one’s trying to trip anybody up. But it’s just a matter of, does it fit the news? Does it fit the show? Sometimes it would fit one show and not the other. And sometimes it just wasn’t the right time.

But another thing that I would say all the time to all the PR calls I would hop on, “A ‘no’ now doesn’t mean a ‘no’ forever.” Stay in touch. Maybe you have a big announcement coming later. Just start the relationship and build on that. Because I think that’s the most important element that people forget about, that it’s people to people and it’s not just very transactional. And once you start creating those relationships—I have PR relationships that I started eight years ago, and I’ve seen them grow in their career as I’ve grown in my career. And we’re more than happy to help each other out because we have that relationship.

But if you’re coming at me with—I’m not going to name names, but there was one specific PR. She was so, so pushy. And I remember her from CNN days, and she came up again while I was at Yahoo. And they were trying to make their CEO a thought leader in X space. And it was just like again and again and again and again and just relentless.

And I’m giving her feedback and I’m saying like, “Let’s hop on a call. I just want to explain to you why this is not the right time.” And then that she would go above me and pitch my boss. And my boss sloop me into the email and be like, “Masha will take care of this.” I’m like, do you think we don’t speak? Do you think you’re pitching everybody at that point?

So knowing when to draw the line and remembering that everyone’s just trying to do their best that they can and we’re just doing their job. I’m not against you. It’s just your guest is not a fit right now. And perhaps think a bit broader and have your client on—what are they saying? In my own cutscene, I always say, what have they been saying before we have someone on? What have they been saying online? Pull what they’ve been saying.

So have they said something that’s interesting? Is there another way that they can generate attention that builds their credibility that then makes them a good guest for TV? And clips. At Yahoo, some of the things that we would always want to see is have they been on TV before? We’re happy to try things out. We’re happy to try new voices and give them a chance. But it’s always so helpful to even if it’s a very small clip from somewhere or they’re just talking directly to camera.

There’s so many mediums right now. You can go on YouTube. You can go on X. You can go on Instagram. There’s so many mediums where you can be seen and just establish that reputation already. That that makes it easier when we’re checking. Bookers always check, Google the guest, where have they been on? That’s the number one thing that they always do. So it’s building that credibility.

Larissa Padden 22:23
Right. I mean, they’re coming on to speak from a place of authority. So you have to be able to see that they, one can command that authority, but also, who are they? What’s their credibility?

Masha Angelova 22:30
Exactly. I mean, are they excited to be on? Are they monotonous? If they’re mumbling like this and they’re just looking down and they’re not looking, it’s not—you want TV as a visual medium. Sometimes you might be super smart, but if you’re like this and you’re hunched over and you’re not making eye contact, it looks like you’re really, really miserable. Would they want to have you back on? Probably not.

Larissa Padden 22:52
You might’ve just answered my next question because I was going to say that I assume that charisma on camera and their personality does play a part in getting invited back. And at the beginning of the conversation, you gave us a good idea of what gets you on, but what gets you back on? What gets you invited back?

Masha Angelova 23:08
Back is interesting insights, interesting analysis. do you have an opinion? Is it punchy? A lot of the times these interviews get cut up into little sizzles that then go across social media. You want them to do well. We want them to do well. If the guest is not punchy, interesting, excited, have that charisma, and I’m not saying they need to be full— I don’t know why I’m bringing up Mariah Carey, but full… I’m trying to think.

Larissa Padden 23:39
Drama, yeah.

Masha Angelova 23:39
Full drama, like arriving and everything, like a whole pizazz. But just like a little bit of energy, a little bit of excitement, because again, it’s specifically for financial news. It’s quite dry. So anyone who can make it digestible, interesting, have a really interesting opinion that’s unique and they can tie their analysis together to provide a very—again, to repeat my favorite word—unique insight, that’s value. You want to teach people. So you want to have that like element of teacherness to them, yeah, with charisma. Yeah, charisma obviously gets you everywhere. But it’s trainable.

And again, ‘no’ now doesn’t mean ‘no’ forever. Charisma is trainable. You’re not just born with it. You train it again and again and again. And it’s just like a muscle that once you’ve done a couple of broadcasts, you get more comfortable. You get more comfortable with the anchors. And it’s that idea that I think a lot of the time, TV or anchors, they seem very intimidating because it’s like the lights and the action and everything. But they’re learning too. Everyone’s learning. So if you treat it more as like an early learning opportunity, you’re like, “Oh, I’ll try this out this time. And maybe next time I try this out.” It’s also a very important side element.

Larissa Padden 24:48
I know. And I know you and I could go on for far too long. But we were talking earlier about like front loading the expectation where sometimes it’s just before you start the cameras and you’re in the room with people say, “Hey, this is my first time doing this. I’m really anxious. Any tips? Because I want to make it look like I want to be here. It’s not torture.”

Masha Angelova 25:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And going for shows that are a little bit smaller. Again, yeah, try, experiment. And just shifting that mindset of like, “Oh, if I fail right now, like I’m never going to be on TV again.”

No, no, no, no, no. Just enjoy it. This is a cool experience. You’re around cool people. You’re sharing really cool insights. You probably wrote a very interesting note with a unique perspective. And you have stuff to say. Say it and be excited about it because you’re excited about your job or excited about what you do. You’re excited to be there. Just it sometimes doesn’t come across as much because people get in their own heads and kind of become their own worst enemy.

Larissa Padden 25:41
Well, Masha, this has been so helpful. And you’ve been so generous with your feedback and your insights. And it is actually quite difficult to get feedback. So thank you for always doing that in your career.

Masha Angelova 25:53
Thanks.

Larissa Padden 25:53
I just had one question to end. You get to have all these fun, cool conversations now with a little bit more runway. If you could have a dream guest for the call, anyone, who would you want to have on?

Masha Angelova 26:04
Well, I think the right answer is like anyone with an interesting perspective who has unique and cool insights that will provide value to our members. So it’s Mariah Carey.

Larissa Padden 26:14
That’s why you said it.

Masha Angelova 26:15
LeBron James. No, I’m kidding. I will go with Putin. I know controversial, but I would love to do sit down, and translator or no translator, full sit down, one hour style, unpack what is in that man’s head. I am very, very intrigued.

Larissa Padden 26:35
If there was ever a conversation to highlight the why, that would be it.

Masha Angelova 26:39
Yeah, yeah, getting behind the man.

Larissa Padden 26:43
We wish you luck on that.

Masha Angelova 26:44
Thank you. Yeah, no, I will not be bidding for that one anytime soon. But girl can dream big.

Larissa Padden 26:50
Of course. Well, again, thank you so much for being here. And we really do hope you’ll come back.

Masha Angelova 26:53
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me.