Volume One – February 19, 2020
Welcome to Cognito’s ‘Executive Agenda’ series, a regular Q&A with some of the best and brightest executives we have the great fortune to know and work with.
Executive Agenda – A Conversation with Kinny Chan
Customers First: From the Kitchen to the Boardroom
We recently sat down with Kinny Chan, Managing Partner of Trustpoint.One. A pioneer in the legal tech and e-discovery fields, Kinny talked to us about his career and life journey – a path underscored by a consistent curiosity and customer-centric focus.
Cognito: Very excited to learn more about your career arc and how you’ve ended up where you are. Can we start with where your career journey began?
KC: Well, at my core, I'm a curious guy. Always have been. So for me, it's all about learning more about something interesting. That’s just part of my DNA. When I was young and my parents first came over from Hong Kong, they opened up two restaurants in Miami. Growing up in that environment, in the restaurant industry, gave me this opportunity to talk to customers, and to talk to people to really just understand them – are they pleased? Are they happy with the food, the service, etc? So, the basis for my career really resides within the combination of curiosity and customer focus. More than anything, that has been a consistent driver throughout my career.
Cognito: Ok, so talk to me about how you entered into the legal profession, and ultimately into e-discovery and legal tech. How did that all begin?
KC: Well, after college, I jumped into law school, not because I was certain I wanted to be a lawyer or practice a certain kind of law, but more so that I just wanted to keep learning. My first job out of school was mostly motivated by a financial need to pay off my student debt, but once I was there, I was able to return to the core elements of customer focus and curiosity, which eventually propelled me into the area of electronic discovery.
I noticed that what existed in the industry then, and even what exists in the industry today, just doesn't make any sense. It's very inefficient and ineffective. And so, I was able to see what the clients were facing and quickly realized there could be a better way of doing this.
Cognito: People don’t always realize that customer service is a big part of the legal profession. Talk to me a bit more about how you’ve carried those early lessons through to your career now.
KC: Absolutely. So, being a lawyer and then transitioning into a business leader at an e-discovery consulting firm, it's always been about the customer and being able to empathize with them. I learned a lot about the importance of that growing up in the restaurant business. For example, in the restaurant business, if you ask a customer ‘how is everything?’, more often than not they’ll say ‘everything’s fine.’ But that’s not necessarily because it is fine, it’s just because that’s the answer that’s easiest for them. To say things aren’t fine requires effort, so most people just say things are good. But then they never come back, which is obviously not good for business. So, as a business leader – whether running a restaurant or managing a consultancy organization – you have to be able to pick up on those clues in order to really practice good customer service.
Cognito: What is the biggest challenge that you’ve faced as a CEO?
KC: I think if I were to name one thing, it would be educating and persuading people to try new things. The legal industry has been around forever, and our system here in the US borrows from the British and is steeped in precedent and tradition. There is a pretty firm, entrenched mindset that is inherent to the profession. So when you come into that with technology, which is inherently different and potentially disruptive, you’re basically replacing these traditional processes with something else. That’s not easy to do.
The biggest challenge I’ve faced in my current role as CEO has been coming in with a new way of looking at the whole discovery process, and getting both clients and employees to look at things in a different way. We always make sure to understand our customer’s mission and goals, and then provide our services within that framework. Again, understanding and being empathetic to customers is at the core of everything.
Cognito: Ok, so against the backdrop of that challenge of education to change thinking, what do you think your proudest moment as a CEO has been?
KC: My proudest moments oddly don’t have anything to do with direct business success. I think the proudest moments are when somebody leaves our company and moves on to a really good job, then comes back and says ‘hey, it's because I've learned all this cool stuff.’ Of course, it stinks in that moment because you have to replace a very valuable person, but I always find joy when someone improves their career because of what they’ve learned here. That always makes me proud.
Cognito: That's a nice segue for me to ask who has done that for you? Who's been that person in your career, either a mentor or a champion, who really affected your journey?
KC: This might seem like a funny answer, but when I look at my Mom… she's not into tech, she's not a business professional. She’s a first-generation immigrant who really had to learn so much. She came over here, had to learn English, had to learn about business and the culture. Everything. When I look at that and see what they were able to do with so little, it’s amazing. They came over with not much money and they were able to do this. And out of it came three kids, all professionals who own their own business, have their own careers. That's really amazing. And it all boils down to just their grit and their ability to step into something that's unknown and challenging themselves.
My Mom was just always mentoring me and trying to think of other people first. That really did propel my career. It still does.
Cognito: What's the best bit of career advice you ever received?
KC: It’s very traditional, but I always think of Dale Carnegie – always think about the other person. It’s right in line with how I approach things. But earlier in my career, I didn't do that. I didn't know how to do that. But once I figured it out – after failing at it several times of course – it took on a life of its own. And now it opens so many different doors.
As CEOs, we have a tendency to talk about ourselves, about our companies, too much. But it’s not about that. You can’t put the burden on the customer to figure out how you fit into their world. The burden belongs to you. So I want to know as much about the customer as I can. Once I started doing that, it created so much opportunity.
And I really didn't see myself coming into this executive role. It was always more of a curiosity – how can I help the client the most? And just every single time an opportunity presented itself, I took it.
Cognito: How about self-doubt? In your life or career, when you've had those moments, what do you do?
KC: Moments of self-doubt? Yes, that comes in all the time. And when I face self-doubt, what I strive to do is live every moment with discipline. I’m inspired by professional athletes like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and Tom Brady. They do the little things every day to prepare for the big moments in life. So when the big moment comes, they rely on their everyday preparation and discipline. And that is what makes them excellent, it’s not the big stage or the big moment, it’s those little things that they’re willing to do to be ready.
I want to make sure in every moment, I’m preparing myself for something great. Whether it’s practicing in front of a mirror before a meeting, working-out to get my mind right, or learning a new skill instead of watching Netflix, I am trusting that these things will prepare me for the next big moment, when or if it comes. I’m not perfect at it by any means – I love to eat all sorts of junk food, for instance – but I try to live with a discipline so when that hard thing comes, I can trust that I’ve done everything I could to be ready for it.
Cognito: Final question -- what advice would you give to people who are just starting their career now?
KC: I would say, find an interesting problem. And try to solve it. And find a company that's doing that. Because you need to be passionate about what you do. If you’re not passionate about the problem you’re solving, it just becomes a job. So my advice to somebody starting out is to find that interesting problem, because if you do, you're going to be much more passionate about your profession. And when you have that, doors are going to just start opening for you. And then, when they do, you just walk right through them.
Kinny W. Chan, Esq.
Managing Partner, Trustpoint.One
Kinny Chan is an experienced executive and attorney that brings order to complex situations. Taking a customer-first approach to sales, service, and product development, he has successfully increased revenue for his company in highly commoditized markets. He is an anti-fragile leader that excels under high-pressure; remaining calm to move initiatives forward and lead a team in the most stressful of situations.